Question for Mk-85 shooters

[flounder]

I purchased a used ss MK-85 late last spring and finally got a chance to shoot it on Sunday. I was getting frustrated at first because it wasn't setting off the percussion caps. I was using a new nipple too. I finally took the hammer assembly off my wolverine and used that with no problem. The one that came with my mk-85 was about .080 shorter than the one in my wolverine and it also had a deeper recess where it contacts the primer. It also has a slight cone shaped nipple where it contacts the primer. I am wondering what kind of primer this hammer assembly was meant for because it most definitely won't work with #11 caps. I know knight once had a system for using small rifer primers. Could that be what this hammer is meant for?
Aside from that , the gun shot great. It seemed to shoot best with 105 grains 2f triple 7.
I have a new hammer ordered from Knight.
Any ideas on what's up with the one it came with?
Art

 

[frontier gander]

maybe the original nipple was longer than the replacement?

 

[flounder]

I thought of that Jon but according to Knight it should have been the same.

 

[frontier gander]

well good luck with it. Post some pics if you can. i saw one with the ss/lam and i really liked it.

 

[minst7877]

It is probably the replacement hammer that went with the 209 conversion kit. It was shorter to allow for the plastic jackets to be installed on the 209 plug.

DC

 

[flounder]

Nope, not the 209 conversion either.

 

[Bill]

There is also a older version of the 209 conversion that does not use the full plastic jacket. Check to see if the O ring has been removed from the bolt assembly. If it is gone, you have the older 209 hammer.

 

[flounder]

It could be the older conversion Bill, that would explain the nipple. It does have the o ring though. Thanks

 

[Reese]

Interesting, any chance you could provide some pictures?

The cone at the end of the striker really sounds like a 209 conversion striker. The flat base strikers were for #11 and musket caps.

Does the nipple look like this;

or like this;

The only rifle primer solution that I have seen in Knight catalogs has been the one in the MK-95 Magnum and its striker system wont fit in an MK-85.

 

[flounder]

The nipple is the top one, the regular #11 Knight nipple. That bottem picture you show looks more like a FPJ breech plug to me. I don't think it is the old 209 conversion hammer either. The old conversions were like the hammer you get with the older Bighorns, that hammer works with the old non full plastic jacket breech plug and with the nipples.
When you add up the shorter overall length of the hammer and the deeper recess on the striker end it is about .140 shorter than the hammer in my Lk-93. The Lk-93 hammer works fine in the gun and I have another one on the way, for a little over 20 bucks. Then I'll have what I need for the gun. I am just puzzled with the hammer assembly I got with it and can't figure out what primer system it would work with.
Sorry, I need to get set up for showing pictures but I'm not there yet.
Thanks for replying everyone.
Art

 

[Reese]

The nipple is the top one, the regular #11 Knight nipple. That bottem picture you show looks more like a FPJ breech plug to me.

It was a trick question. I had seen a post where someone tried to use a cap on the breech plug pictured on the bottom. I just wanted to rule that out. I guess we can also rule out the secondary safety being in the way and the o-ring being in the way?

If you have access to a digital camera, I can post the pictures for you, just PM me.

 

[flounder]

Ok my first time trying to post pictures.
Here are the two plungers the one that came with the mk-85 to the left and the lk-93 on the right the sliver of wood which measures .080 is the difference in length between the two

with a dial calipers I measured recess in the working end of the hammer.
The lk-93 hammer measures .250

the mk-85 hammer measures .300 to the tip of a slight nipple inside there

In this next picture you see that when the hammer is resting against the nipple with the lk-93 plunger there is still some more it could go forward:

but with the hammer that came with the mk-85 it is forward all the way and still not hitting the nipple;

This is the breech plug and nipple I am using

I hope this worked and helps explain what I am talking about.
Here is the gun:

It sure is pretty
Art

 

[flounder]

Well obviously I did something wrong. Maybe you can help out Reese

 

[frontier gander]

you have to copy and paste the IMG Code.

 

[flounder]

got it, now I know how to do the images anyway. Sorry about the messy table.
Art

 

[deer655]

I have what I think is a 2nd year production mk85. You have an old style slotted breech plug. My hammer assy has a much smaller end then your picture shows. The end of my hammer assy has just enough space to enclose a musket cap.That does look like a 209 conversion hammer. I have one of those too and that sure looks like it. I much prefer musket caps over 209s because i can reload so quick if needed. Also my hammer assy does not hace a cone shaped to hit the primer. Its flat.

 

[Reese]

Very well done on the pics. That sure is a pretty rifle. I'd love to get my hands on a thumb hole version of that stock. Those do look like the percussion cap strikers that I have seen. The 209 conversion strikers do not have the taper.

The slight cone/nipple/protrusion that you see in the one that is too short still mystifies me. Some random thoughts I have is - was it from wear or lots of dry firing - was it modified by a previous owner? Could you post a picture of the short striker's recess area?

 

[Reese]

Another thought that I had was what is the over all length of the breech plug with red hot nipple installed? I have one slotted breech plug, like the one you have pictured and it measures 1.804 " with a #11 red hot nipple installed. I also have a newer hex head breech plug like this;

and it measures 1.824" with the same #11 red hot nipple installed. However, I am not sure .020" will get you were you need to be.

Anyone know what a Bighorn striker looks like? If I remember correctly it was suppose to handle #11, musket cap and 209. That may explain a slight protrusion in the recessed area of the striker.

 

[flounder]

I also have a Bighorn striker and that will work with all three ignition types. I noticed the same thing that you showed with the different breech plugs but that is not enough to make a difference. I tried taking a picture of that recessed area but it doesn't show up. Anyway I'm happy with the rifle so I'm not going to worry about it.
Art

 

[deer655]

i was wrong earlier on my post about my 209 hammer assy looking like your picture. i went and dug it out and it is straight to the end with no decrease in size near the striking surface. i shouldnt of been going on memory.i wonder if knight still has those hammer assy for sale for the mk 85s ,if so then u could get the hex head breech plug to go with it. much easier to get out then the old slotted ones in my opinion. good luck