Another Stripped Hornady...

[sabotloader]

This has always been a problem for me with Hornady bullets. It started years ago when I was hunting with a Hornady .308/200 Round Nose, shot from a 300 Winchester Mag.

I shot two elk with this bullet and both time I found the copper just under the skin on the entrance side and of course they never exitied. Yes both elk were harvested, so yes I gues the bullet worked but i certainly would not trust it.

When I moved from centerfire to muzzleloader the first bullets I tried were XTP's and the experienced continued. Not always did they strip but on occasion they did. Of course after my ML discovery of the the problem I immediatly switch to Noslers as I had done even for centerfire hunting.

I was shooting some 250 FTX's the other day at the farm and today when I set the target out I found this FTX in the trough in the ground. Shook my head... but I picked it up for pictures. Yes, I know shooting this bullet into wet soil if tough on a bullet but I am not certain howm much tougher it than shooting throught the hide of a bull elk - especially if you strike a major bone.

Fore myself Hornady's are good for shooting paper but I never really trust them when shooting a game animal.

sorry for the heavy yellow color - that is what I get for using a yellow back ground paper....

 

[black powder]

i hear you and believe you ,i only use them [Hornady sst ] for target practice ,they are very accurate in my Encore but i will not hunt with them anymore ..too many pencil pass throughs and lost deer [no blood trail]

 

[quigley]

Maybe a good reason to try a Barnes.

 

[sabotloader]

I know there is a lot of people that really believe in Hornady's so I am not really trying to change anyone's mind. I just am trying to tell my experiances with the Hornady line.

I just have lost faith...

 

[black powder]

that makes 2 of us

 

[tpcollins]

I had one experience last fall with a 250gr SST pass thru but it was my fault as I did not account for the wind and hit the deer further back than I would have wanted. It went across the road, and I jumped it again shortly afterwards. Although I didn't have enough time for a follow up shot I could see intestines hanging out the exit side as it ran away. But I did recover it later that evening.

I am convinced however, if I'd hit lungs instead of stomach and liver, the deer would have fallen within sight. If you enter that bullet's diameter, length, with a 28" rate of twist into a gyroscopic stability formula - this bullet is about as good as it gets for a muzzleloader. I'll give it another chance this season, hopefully I'll get to try it out on lungs this time.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

What velocities are you getting with the XTP's? Perhaps they're going too fast? I must admit that I've found alot of seperated cores and jackets with XTP's and I shoot mild loads.I cant say how they hold together in critters as I've yet to recover one( bullet not critter).Dirt of any kind is very rough on even the best bullets. However, the best jacketed bullet I've found for core retention are these silly Winchester 230 gr .45 ACP bullets I kick out of my Black Diamond at 1450fps.DEVASTATING on deer and the ones I dig out of the dirt are almost always expanded flat and are over an inch in diameter.Must have a hundred or more and only 3 are coreless. Makes an excellent batch of chest soup too!

 

[sabotloader]

Confederate rifleman

What velocities are you getting with the XTP's? Perhaps they're going too fast?

It is a FTX - it was designed to go fast... but I was shooting 110 grains T7-2f and running a velocity of 1900 fps.

Dirt of any kind is very rough on even the best bullets. However, the best jacketed bullet

Oh, i totally agree, other than shooting them into gravel ist is a very tough test. - i have just found that a convienent test medium to test the construction of any bullet(s) that I shoot. I should also mention that I have found other bullets that survive the test just fine. And the fact that I have found the copper under of the hide of a couple of animals tells me it can happen in an animal also....

 

[GM54-120]

sabotloader

How did the older XTP MAG compare or were they the mags you noticed failing.

Ive used a few of the XTPs but mostly the 300gr mags and my only complaint was it didnt expand enough on softer media sometimes. I havent used them in years except some old 240gr non mags in 44/54 sabots.

I do use some FTX/SSTs but i really only like the 40cal 200gr SST in my 45 and just on paper. No kills with it yet. Going after yotes with it soon hopefully.

In the 50cals the little FTX 45 200gr really surprised me but i think its designed for higher fps and might have a thicker jacket/harder. I need to cross section one. Not a great shooter but easy on the shoulder. The only 2 FTXs i do like are the 45 300gr and the .458 325gr. Both of those have held up to pretty good for me on media and one deer.

Im curious if Hornady really did much in the way of jacket thickness variations based on the typical velocity of each FTX caliber. The one for 444 Marlin maybe not be the best ML shooter but its one of the fastest, so i wonder if they made it with a thicker jacket...as an example vs the lighter 44mag version.

The 225gr version for the 45 colt opens up at lot a lower FPS (roughly 1000fps-). Im sure it wouldnt hold together well in a ML.

The 50cal 300gr FTX seems ok for deer but the load was kinda mild (80gr APP 2FG). I dont think it will hold upto the GMB54 and a near full power load. In the old Thunderhawk and slower twist it held up "ok". Not very accurate either in the 1-38 but good enough for under 50yards. It was better with round balls at those ranges and charge. Did the best with conicals.

Here we dont get much more than deer, a few feral hogs and yotes for most ML hunting. Excluding squirrel rifles.....at least i dont get to. Oh and the occasional wild dogs you are not supposed to shoot.

Put me in elk or bear country though and you bet i would be shooting nothing but Partitions, Lehigh or Barnes.

Im going to have to really look into the GoldDot/DeepCurl now since it should be cheaper than the FTX and everyone pretty much likes them better.

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

My hunting experience with the XTP is very limited - one season with 250 grain XTP's - both shots harvested the animal but both shots I found the copper just inside the hide.

I tried a 300 grain XTP Mag one time on an animal and shot right through it @ 15 yards. The buck jumped straight up ran the death circle and then back down the draw a 100 yards or so. Two really nice neat holes right through the animal... I really was not hunting deer, we were after elk but it was late in the day and this really nice 5x5 walked right by never even knew I was there....

Im curious if Hornady really did much in the way of jacket thickness variations based on the typical velocity of each FTX caliber. The one for 444 Marlin maybe not be the best ML shooter but its one of the fastest, so i wonder if they made it with a thicker jacket...as an example vs the lighter 44mag version

I am not sure of any that - I know I have the same problem shooting Hornady bullets from my 300 win mag or 270. They are my last bullet of choice for hunting.

 

[GM54-120]

OK thanks,

I kinda felt the same way about Winchester bulk for similar reasons and lack of weights/calibers i wanted. Im not a big fan of most of their ammo either. So i havent used their bulk bullets in years.

Snow and sleet here again so i wont get to play at the range or down at the property tomorrow. Im loaded up on phone books and empty jugs and really want to try out some of mine on the redneck media test. :lol:

This is the results ive been getting with the 250gr SST and low drags. 15yards, 29ish" barrel and 100gr of BH209. Full milk jug then 2 totally soaked full sized phone books.

Ive done this a few times and this has been typical. Retained 200gr+ but all lead was sheared off the petals and the petals wrapped around the base. They almost go through. No results on game though but i have with a 300gr/110grBH209 and it was a pass though quartering with a fast kill on a buck.

 

[pinks]

I like the Hornady bullets, I us them for my center fires and BP, nothing wrong with a complete pass through on game, or a bullet that may come apart.......good shoot placement and you got meat in the freezer!! Just my .02!! Cool post none the less!!

Here is a 100 grn Hornady SP from a Spring Bear I took Last year, shot it with my 243win @ about 55-60yrds, bullet took out right shoulder, clipped the spine, through the left shoulder and stoped on the hide.....dropped him like a sack of hammers!!! Retained bullet weight was 58grn! not to bad for a point blank shot!!

Perry