DISC Elite #10 @ the farm

[sabotloader]

Semi

Tinkering is fine especially if it works.... I did have to INSERT IGNORE a second washer to get primer contact

But now the problem.... I dropped a #3 stainless nut in the carpet someplace back here - and now I can not find it - dang small!

And I just found out that some primers are better than others.... when it comes to leaking...[/u]

 

[Semisane]

But now the problem.... I dropped a #3 stainless nut in the carpet someplace back here - and now I can not find it - dang small!

A long long time ago in a home not so far away, I knocked over an open twenty-five pound bag of #8 lead shot on a shag carpet (remember those). Talk about one pi$$ed off mom. :shock:

 

[HunterB4]

But now the problem.... I dropped a #3 stainless nut in the carpet someplace back here - and now I can not find it - dang small!

A long long time ago in a home not so far away, I knocked over an open twenty-five pound bag of #8 lead shot on a shag carpet (remember those). Talk about one pi$$ed off mom. :shock:

LOL, what a MESS!

 

[Mountainam]

Sabotloader, Congrats on your new rifle. I was wondering if the blowback that you're experiencing is from the breechplug. I had a friend bring his Knight Revolution II over to my range to shoot. It had the convex breechplug. The flash hole in those are .028 and we had to use Mag 209's to get it to light off BH 209. The Knight Vision plug is the same length,but has a flat face and .033 flash hole. When we made the switch, his rifle would fire with 209 Rem STS primers which are weaker. You seem like you enjoy experimenting a lot. I don't know how large that you can drill out the flame channel from the primer to the flash hole without losing the primer nose seat. But the larger you can make that the better. It will give the primer mixture a chance to expand and then it will be necked back down for the flash hole thereby lowering the primer pressure because you don't need all that pressure just the flame. With all the pressure of a 209 it will leak back if you don not let it expand. Forgive me if I missed you previous posts of events leading up to this thread. I just saw this one this morning and had not read any previous ones. Good Luck with your project.

 

[sabotloader]

I was wondering if the blowback that you're experiencing is from the breechplug.

It is from the breech plug. Not from around the threads but from under the primer.

I had a friend bring his Knight Revolution II over to my range to shoot. It had the convex breechplug. The flash hole in those are .028 and we had to use Mag 209's to get it to light off BH 209.

The Revolution plug was designed with the small 'flash hole' to reduce the amount of blow back and pressure that was being pushed back up the breech plug. It was never designed to ignite BH-209, but more real BP and BP subs.

The Knight Vision plug is the same length,but has a flat face and .033 flash hole. When we made the switch, his rifle would fire with 209 Rem STS primers which are weaker.

There are several different plugs available for the Vision, from what you are describing - you have one of the NEW plugs that is designed to reduce blow back but does allow ignition of BH-209

You seem like you enjoy experimenting a lot. I don't know how large that you can drill out the flame channel from the primer to the flash hole without losing the primer nose seat. But the larger you can make that the better. It will give the primer mixture a chance to expand and then it will be necked back down for the flash hole thereby lowering the primer pressure because you don't need all that pressure just the flame. With all the pressure of a 209 it will leak back if you don not let it expand. Forgive me if I missed you previous posts of events leading up to this thread. I just saw this one this morning and had not read any previous ones. Good Luck with your project.

Using the Knght Vision plug that works... we.I have some what settled on a 'Flame Channel' drilled out to 0.159" (a #21 bit) and the installation of a Lehigh Vent liner with a 'flash hole' of 0.032". These seem to be working well.

My current attempt is to limit the amount the of blow back in the DISC series using this type of BP. When Knight bulit the gun they were very generous with tolerances - so that a person could shoot any primer and have it work. As you probably know there is no standard in primer length or thickness so for the lack of a better term there is a lot of slop in the breech area. My goal is to tighten the 'slop' up to reduce blow back yet still allow the plug to work well with BH...

 

[jsteurrys]

We are on our way to custom fitting the breechplug to a particular rifle and primer. The "o"-ring helps take up the slop.

 

[Mountainam]

Sabotloader, I ask because I've never fooled around with a Knight bolt rifle. Does the Knight shove the bolt forward when you cam it over as does a Rem 700ML? I would think that if it does that you would be able to get a crush fit. I can't recall if you were testing Fiocchi primers or not. I think they measure .0015-.002" fatter than most U.S. brands. But then I guess if the primer "chambers" too tight the thin rim may not allow it to be extracted.

 

[jsteurrys]

Sabotloader, I ask because I've never fooled around with a Knight bolt rifle. Does the Knight shove the bolt forward when you cam it over as does a Rem 700ML? I would think that if it does that you would be able to get a crush fit. I can't recall if you were testing Fiocchi primers or not. I think they measure .0015-.002" fatter than most U.S. brands. But then I guess if the primer "chambers" too tight the thin rim may not allow it to be extracted.

Yes, if the primer pocket was designed to do this. Overall length of the primer is still a major factor in getting this to work correctly.

 

[sabotloader]

Mountainam

I ask because I've never fooled around with a Knight bolt rifle. Does the Knight shove the bolt forward when you cam it over as does a Rem 700ML?

It does cam it forward a smal amount.

I would think that if it does that you would be able to get a crush fit.

It does not form a crush fit because the primer shelf is to deep in the primer well for the primer to reach. By inserting an 'O' ring or a washer(s) as I am trying you can bring the primer shelf closer to the bolt face and get the the 'crush' on the face of the primer that you might be talking about.

I can't recall if you were testing Fiocchi primers or not. I think they measure .0015-.002" fatter than most U.S. brands. But then I guess if the primer "chambers" too tight the thin rim may not allow it to be extracted.

I do not have any Fiocchi primers, but i do have Cheddite's and yes they are fatter than the American varieties of primers. So you can get some what of a press fit on the walls of the primer well. but to much of a press fit will lead to a 'stuck' primer after shooting...

Have you seen this thread on the 700ml - that I am working on...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=15812

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=15567

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=15537

 

[Mountainam]

Sabot loader, Yes I did see your project on Dougs message board. There looks like there's another thread on there that would solve your problem lickety split. I stink bad on my computer skills so I can't link to the thread. It's under Modern in-lines by Dave D. called Disc Elite Breechplug Conversion. Dated Jan 16,2010. It looks like a quick and simple setup with readily available materials and accoutrementes. I think that he's taking orders.

 

[sabotloader]

Mountainam

There looks like there's another thread on there that would solve your problem lickety split. I stink bad on my computer skills so I can't link to the thread. It's under Modern in-lines by Dave D. called Disc Elite Breechplug Conversion. Dated Jan 16,2010

I have looked at that thread and I do have the Lehigh conversion installed and it is certainly cleaner the the Knight NFPJ - but it really is not clean... anyway as clean as I want it to be.

The Lehigh breech plug that I am using is a prototype of the one Dave has jsteurrys has new plug also and I think we both think there is room for improvement. Jim is using the #5-193 'O' ring to really clean his up and I am trying to do it with a permanent washer insert.

I am headed to the farm here in a bit to try my latest attempt - but I do think I need just a bit thicker INSERT IGNORE to get the nose of the primer to sit on the shelf right. It is really hard to tell when you install the primer adapter and close the bolt....

 

[Mountainam]

I don't think you're looking at the right thread. That's my fault for not being able to get the link to you. Dave D's uses an adjustable socket head capscrew to control headspace. He also uses the cleaner large rifle primer in a shortened .243 casing. It's looks like a better mousetrap.

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=4034

I had my son help me with the cut and paste thing.

 

[sabotloader]

Mountainam

Yep! I saw that one also... but as Tom has said - i am stubborn - I think I can fix the current one...

I just got back from the farm testing the inserts... no joy! I am getting ready to take it apart right now and look at it but I am sure my primers are still not reaching the shelf...

I had my son help me with the cut and paste thing.

My 2 1/2 year old grand daughter is staying with us this week... she works my cell phone and electronic camera better than I do....