short Harvester sabot and flat based tmz

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herb

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Has anybody tried Harvester short black sabot with Barnes 250 gr. flat base tipped bullet? I have tried the mmp hp12 sabot with this bullet in my Omega with ok results, but not as accurate as shockwave with short black Harvester sabot.
I am out of the Barnes flat based bullet or I would try one myself.
 
I had the same experience as you. I then tried the short black harvestor but it loaded very tight (to tight) in my TC Triumph. I just recieved some of the crushed rib sabots to try as I have read a lot of good about them, but look forward to hearing others experiences also.
 
The crush rib sabot fit too loose in my guns with a TEZ bullet. After I pushed the first one down the barrel, I knew it wasn't going to work, it was that loose. I then tried an MMP HPH-12 sabot and that worked great, shot a nice 1 inch group with them.
 
+Which sabot that works in one barrel has nothing to do with bullet or brand name, it has more to do with just exactly what size the barrel is muzzle loaders often range as much as 5 thousands in any brand even TC.
I personally have an Omega that is between .497 and .498 and an Endeavor that is between .501 and .502 The sabot I have to use also reflects this. Take a look at the sticky at the top of the page remembering when you do that this assortment is necessary because of the large tolerance that all of the companies I know of have a large tolerance on bore diameter. Lee
 
No but i tried the CRs for boat tails and the blue ones that Knight shipped with the Spitfires 285s worked better except in one gun with a very tight bore.
 
250 gr Barnes TEZ and harvester black crush ribs

I'm new to muzzleloading, but I can tell you that my Accura just loved the barnes 250 grain TEZ (flat base) with Harvesters black crushed rib sabot when pushed with 100 grains (by volume) of BH 209.
 
When I tried the Harvester CR with the TEZ in my Accura I thought they were a little looser then I like.Im waiting for some short blk Harvesters to get here to try..
 
I made a chart showing the lengths, diameters of various bullets and the sabot diameters of the stock sabots versus black,red, yellow, and green CR sabots but I can't figure out how to upload the spreadsheet.

Basically, the CR sabots allow a larger OD usually but not always. The .45 cal bullet's OD range from from .4495" to .451". My one .44 cal from PR Bullet showed the factory sabot larger than the green CR sabot.

My combo choice this year may be the Barnes TMZ with the yellow boattail CR sabot which gives a tad bit larger OD but should be easier to load. We'll see.
 
herb said:
Has anybody tried Harvester short black sabot with Barnes 250 gr. flat base tipped bullet? I have tried the mmp hp12 sabot with this bullet in my Omega with ok results, but not as accurate as shockwave with short black Harvester sabot.
I am out of the Barnes flat based bullet or I would try one myself.

I tried the flat base Barnes with the Harvester Short Black and it shot some great groups--3 shots well under an inch at 100-- but would have the occasional unexplained flyer. With Crush Ribs it was not so hot. The 250 Barnes were not as consistently accurate with any sabot I tried as the 250 Shock Waves with the Short Black Harvester in my Omega with 110 grns of BH209 so I hunt with the Shock Waves. jmo
 
gman57 said:
When I tried the Harvester CR with the TEZ in my Accura I thought they were a little looser then I like.Im waiting for some short blk Harvesters to get here to try..
My guess is the crush rib sabot is too small to expect good results in an Accura. My guess is the short black sabot is the correct size to use in the Accura; it is what i use in my Accura, whereas i use the crush rib in my Omega, and in my Triumph.
 
paia said:
The 250 Barnes were not as consistently accurate with any sabot I tried as the 250 Shock Waves with the Short Black Harvester in my Omega with 110 grns of BH209 so I hunt with the Shock Waves. jmo
Myself, i have not hunted with the Barnes, but if i were given a choice between the Barnes and the Shock wave, for use in the field, i would choose the Barnes even though the accuracy might be some less than the shock wave. This i write assuming the Barnes groups 1/2 to 1" larger than the shock wave at 100 yard; you didn't write what the accuracy difference was.

Inaccurate bullets certainly aren't acceptable, but in my experience, counting on shock waves whilst hunting isn't acceptable either.
 
ronlaughlin said:
paia said:
The 250 Barnes were not as consistently accurate with any sabot I tried as the 250 Shock Waves with the Short Black Harvester in my Omega with 110 grns of BH209 so I hunt with the Shock Waves. jmo
Myself, i have not hunted with the Barnes, but if i were given a choice between the Barnes and the Shock wave, for use in the field, i would choose the Barnes even though the accuracy might be some less than the shock wave. This i write assuming the Barnes groups 1/2 to 1" larger than the shock wave at 100 yard; you didn't write what the accuracy difference was.

Inaccurate bullets certainly aren't acceptable, but in my experience, counting on shock waves whilst hunting isn't acceptable either.

The Barnes flyers were bad enough to cause a gut shot or miss at 150+ yards and I killed three deer with the ShockWaves last year, including an Iowa 10 pt that was well over 200 on the hoof and the ShockWaves did fine--the buck was DRT with a high shoulder shot at 80 yards. I do not buy the notion that you need premium, expensive Barnes-type bullets to kill whitetail deer. Whitetails just are not that big and tough. I've killed a bunch with my Omega and Hornady XTP's, SST's and T/C SW's from 10 yds to 170 yds. If I really thought the premium bullets gave me any advantage I would gladly spend the $$, but they are not needed IMO. I'll stick with the consistent and exceptional accuracy of the SW's.

250 grn SW -- IA -- 12/2009
IMGP0387.jpg
 
Wow, that is a dandy buck paia.

Your choice of xtp makes sense to me. They work good on deer. Myself, i don't care how accurate the sst is, i plan to never use them again on anything. XTP are accurate enough for me as are Gold Dot. They both are good killers too.
 
Thanks Ron. And I like the XTP's a lot--a friend in Iowa and I have had great luck with them on big whitetails using both the .430 240 grn. and the .430 300 grn. XTP. I have never used them, but have heard good things about the Gold Dots.

I like the 250 SW's just 'cause they are so accurate and they are flatter shooting than the 300 XTP's. What happened that turned you off the SW's and SST's anyway?
 
250 SHOCKWAVE sold by T/C are actually overpriced HORNADY SST ..both are very accurate in my ENCORE used exclusively on the range .but for hunting BARNES MZ 250gr. all the way ..
 
paia said:
......................................What happened that turned you off the SW's and SST's anyway?
My first 5 muzzle loader kills were made using sst. Upon opening up the first kill, i was some surprised at the little amount of tissue damage done by the bullet, but being new to muzzle loading, i didn't know really what to expect. It was a surprise to me that the sst was stopped by the back bone in either that first kill, or it may have been the second kill; i don't really remember right now. The third kill was a through and through lung shot that ran near 150 yard, if i recall correctly.

The forth kill nearly escaped. It was a mortal shot in the lungs, but the deer didn't know it was dead and ran out of the meager amount of snow that was on the South hill side. The blood trail was sparse, and if it weren't for patches of snow here and there, i couldn't have tracked it. It really tricked me when it started down hill, and went into bare ground. I figured it would be laying there somewhere, but couldn't find it. The real mystery was where the ground was snow covered further down, there were no tracks.

So i marked the very last place where i was on it's trail, and looked up, down, and all around. It took much longer searching for that deer, than it is taking to write this. I even circled up even though i 'knew' the deer had gone down. My old memory tells me i circled up and down 3 times before i gave up, and decided to head back to the truck. On the way back to the truck, i went up higher than i ever had, and headed out. After just a few steps kinda toward the truck, i saw the deer. The autopsy revealed the minor tissue damage i had seen before in the other deer. I was some surprised the deer headed down, but turned, and back tracked it's trail up. That was enough for me; i decided to try a different bullet when i could.

Rather than take time to sight in the rifle for a different bullet, i hunted the next day with the sst, and killed a sleeping deer at about 125 yard across canyon. It never was able to get up, and died right there. There was a lot of blood, and the damage looked good, and the way i thought it should look. However, the sst never got another chance.

The next 2 deer kill were done by a Nosler Partition. Now that was an eye opener. What that bullet does to deer is just plain wicked. Wow, is what went through my mind when i examined them. Since then, i have witnessed what an XTP does on deer, and what a Gold Dot does on deer. They both have what it takes to put the hurt on them critter. For some reason the Gold Dot is my bullet of choice as i write this, and it can be had for a non-premium price, if one can find it.
 
That's interesting Ron. Thanks for posting your experiences. I killed a couple 100 lb doe with the new Flex Tip SSTs in 2008 and was not thrilled with their expansion. They seemed to zip right through and not expand much or cause a lot of damage. That is why I went with the hard plastic tips of the T/C SW's in 2009. I know they are both made by Hornady but a lot of folks think Hornady changed something when they went to the Flex Tips and made the bullets "harder." The Flex Tips I used were the first ones that were packaged for bulk sales in 50 packs and are actually sold with reloading the .450 Bushmaster in mind. There were some threads on this subject back in '08.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... oe&start=0

Here's a thread from last December...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... highlight=

Anyway, the 250 grn. yellow tipped Shock Waves worked well for me in '09 but I may end up back with my 300 grn XTP's. They kick a little more and are not quite as flat shooting as the 250 SW's though.... :?
 
Paia

These 44 caliber Gold Dots are in stock, and are not a premium price. These i have witnessed do the job on several deer, and they do work.

These 45 caliber Gold Dot are in stock also, and they should do the job. Myself, i haven't used them, but perhaps others have. The price is right.
 

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