Long range with a ML

[critter getter]

I'm new here and to the hole muzzle loader thing. Here my ??? I have been shooting long range for some time now with center fire rifles out to1000-1500 yds. but I'm wanting to get in to a ML and want to shot some long range with the one i get. but i don't have a clue what i need to be looking at. I like savage a lot.
i have a lot of them. But I have not even shot a ML before so i need some help here. Would a savage work for what I'm wanting to do? Black powder are smokeless??? I think i would like to use black powder but not set in stone. i would like to think i could get out to 500-750 yds is that possible???Give me some ideas i sure need some.
Thanks Jeff

 

[OptimaAndy]

250 yards is long range for MLing. And most would never shoot an animal at that distance.
Are you talking 500-700 just at paper. If not stick with centerfire.

 

[Bucker]

Long range

Try this site. Serious Target Shooters at Long Ranges using BP and other subs.
http://www.lrml.org/news/index.htm

 

[GM54-120]

Much past 200yards you wont have enough scope or sight adjustment with a few exceptions. Very few will carry enough energy past 250yards for a clean kill. Even a 10 mph crosswind can move the point of impact several feet at ranges over 250.

For ME 200-250 is max and i would only take that shot with my 45 Accura at an animal. After 200yards most bullets start shedding velocity FAST.

The best long range muzzle loader ive seen are the 1851 40 or 45cal Gibbs replicas. They win many long range contests and the sights are designed for "rainbow" trajectories....They are expensive and normally shoot very long conicals from a 34" 1-18 twist barrel. :shock:

If you just want a reason to buy a Savage...you dont need one. Its a great rifle and very accurate. It will shoot "long for caliber" bullets better than many rifles. At least in theory it should be one of the better "modern" choices for long range hunting.

BTW there are 2 version of the Savage. One is BP or sub only with a26" barrel. The model designed for smokeless is 24" (I think).

 

[cayuga]

For long range BLACK POWDER rifles in traditional styles you have a few..

Gibbs in .45 caliber
Whitworth in .45 caliber
Sharps in .50 caliber

There are reports of the Queen of England at a shooting match with a Gibbs, hit her target at 400 yards. Also they shoot 1000 yards with their peep (verner tang) sights. My eyes are not that good.

 

[GM54-120]

The Pedersoli Gibbs were onsale at Cabelas for under $800 but i think they are sold out.

Its a VERY beautiful rifle. Go to Pedersoli's website. You will see they won many matches out to 1000 yards with the Gibbs.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=A ... 50&lang=en

2003 NRA RECORD (USA) 2004 NRA RECORD (USA) 2005 WORLD LONG RANGE M.L. Championship, Bisley (England) 3 Gold - 2 Silver - 1 Bronze 2007 WORLD LONG RANGE M.L. Championship, Cape Town (Sudafrica) 10 Gold - 9 Silver - 8 Bronze

My Ovation is on the low end of their lineup and the barrel quality is fantastic. I also had a Pedersoli Sharps replica in 45/70 and it was a tack driver. I gave it to my father as a gift and now its a 45-110.

 

[quigley]

This guy is plinking at 420 yards with a Traditions Tracker.Its a modern gun, but still pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmiMx1jRA

 

[pinks]

This guy is plinking at 420 yards with a Traditions Tracker.Its a modern gun, but still pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmiMx1jRA

Love that video!!! Although....i don't think i'll be trying that with my 209 tracker!!

Perry

 

[Bucker]

video

The reasosning for the walnut shell wash? Stiffening up the sabot w/ the wad was new to me. I wonder what that got him in terms of perforemance?

 

[hjbuys]

neat video.

 

[GM54-120]

Interesting. i wonder why he just didnt use a dry wad.

I keep a variety of them on hand and experiment a bit too. They can come in useful for other things besides just conicals.

I have some very short 200gr 45 FTX bullets. Using a dry felt wad between the bullet and sabot gave it a great fit. They can also be used to lessen the crud ring with T7. Dry thin fiber wad first then a VERY lightly lubed thicker wad, then the sabot. The lubed felt wad is far from wet and just helps keep the crud ring a tiny bit softer.

Checkout this site for tons of various wads. Some are only $5/500 such as my favorite. Here is were i get mine.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,246.html

This one is my favorite over powder wads but its really made for shotguns and they are very tough. Sometimes they can even help blowing sabots such as the 357/45s. They can be a PITA without a sub base.

Circle Fly Nitro .135 thick available from 8 gauge to .410.

 

[Chick]

Why do they use very long conicals? With a 1 / 18 twist barrel, you will be spinning the bullet as fast as will be needed for stabilization. Shorter bullets do not need as fast of twist, and most ML bullets already have the weight needed to maintain good groups at long range.

Longer bullets would have to be made to maintain their velocity and spin for stabization. As most ML don't have the ability to achieve that velocity, so, it would seem that longer bullets would be counter productive. So, why do they use very long conicals?

 

[Chick]

Why do they use very long conicals? With a 1 / 18 twist barrel, you will be spinning the bullet as fast as will be needed for stabilization. Shorter bullets do not need as fast of twist, and most ML bullets already have the weight needed to maintain good groups at long range.

Longer bullets would have to be made to maintain their velocity and spin for stabization. As most ML don't have the ability to achieve that velocity, so, it would seem that longer bullets would be counter productive. So, why do they use very long conicals?

 

[GM54-120]

Punch in the #s into a BC calculator sometime and change weights and wind.

High sectional density bullets buck the wind much better. Why do match grade AR15s use a 1-7" and shoot heavy 70gr or long 223s? A 1-10 will shoot a normal FMJBT 55gr faster. NATO issue is (i think 1-9) now for the heavier and slower 62gr bullets.

I think the twist is fast too but its hard to argue with all their wins in major competitions.