Savage Vent Liner in an Omega Breech Plug

[paia]

This is an idea I first heard about from Lee 9 and Sabotloader here at Modern Muzzleloader. It involves modifying an Omega breech plug to take a Savage ML vent liner. A vent liner is like a removable, separate flash hole--you can replace the vent liner when your flash hole wears open too much after a couple hundred shots, and you do not have to replace the whole breech plug. Vent liners cost about $3 each from Savage. New breech plugs cost over 5 times that.

And--what I like most--with the removable vent liner, it is easy to clean up the carbon that builds up in the BP when shooting Blackhorn209 and 209 primers.

I'll try and post the pics with a comment about what I am trying to show--the pics are not the best, but I hope they are clear enough.

Like I said, this all started, for me anyway, with info from Lee 9 and Sabotloader--thanks a lot--I think your idea is brilliant.

This is, from left to right, a factory Omega BP, my modified Omega BP--it's been countersunk to match the vent liner, drilled through with a #21 drill bit, and tapped for 10-32 to accept the vent liner--and the Savage vent liner is on the right. The Savage Vent Liner is basically an allen head screw with a flash hole drilled through it--the flash hole is about .031" I believe.

Here is my Omega w/ the modified breech plug after 23 shots of 100 to 110 grns. of BH209 and Win 209 primers. Notice how little dirt and blowback there is. There is just a little carbon building up in the "flash channel" under where the primer goes.

This is the breech plug face (powder side) after 23 shots of BH209

Here is my breech plug with the vent liner removed showing how I can drill the carbon out all the way through with a 5/32" bit. The 5/32" bit does not damage the 10-32 threads if you are careful and keep the drill straight.

Here's my modified BP all cleaned up without the vent liner in it. And the last pic is the vent liner installed and the BP ready to go back in the rifle.

 

[sabotloader]

paia

Excellent job - sure makes life easier...

 

[zman]

That looks great, I may have to change mine over as well. It sure would save some $. My only hesitation is that I thought that BH powder performed(ignited) better out of a BP that has the domed end in it vs. a flat end. Any thoughts, or tests?
Thanks, Eric

 

[paia]

That looks great, I may have to change mine over as well. It sure would save some $. My only hesitation is that I thought that BH powder performed(ignited) better out of a BP that has the domed end in it vs. a flat end. Any thoughts, or tests?
Thanks, Eric

I thought it was the opposite!

My only experience with Blackhorn209 is with my Omegas and it has performed flawlessly. I have shot almost 12 containers--about 700 shots--including some pretty cold hunts, and I am sold on the stuff. I have had zero problems--no ignition problems or hangfires with the original Omega BP's or the vent liner conversions. The vent liner conversions only have about 50 shots through them so far though. My .02 and YMMV

 

[zman]

I have been shooting BH out of my Omega as well with Fed. primers and have haven't had any problems either. I think that I may have to try and convert a plug myself. Thanks for the work and pics. that went into this project, I know that it takes some time to put the whole thing together. Eric

 

[Lee 9]

Zman all the Omega plugs work just fine with Blackhorn, one of the ones I converted was the old flat face , it worked just fine both before and after the conversion. Lee

 

[zman]

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Chick]

So. If you only countersink to match the angle of the thread side of the Lehigh Vent liner screw, you have the dome extending into the powder chamber. Does this cause any problems? Would it be better to countersink the hole, so that the domed, or flat face of either vent liner screw, is down inside the countersunk hole? If it is better to countersink, why? I know the powder will fill the countersunk hole, all the way to the face of the vent liner, as it would, if the hole is not countersunk. Is there a theory why one would be better than the other?

 

[sabotloader]

Chick

The Lehigh Vent Liner is designed to help reduce blow-back back down through the flash hole.

A concave face an a breech plug pretty much directs pressure created in the bore directly to the flash hole - I am thinking that would increase the amount of blow-back. The flat faced breech plug suchas the one you have will/should reduce some of the pressure reaching the flash hole. Then the convex face or the face of the Lehigh Vent liner should have a greater effect of reducing the amount of pressure directed at the flash hole, instead it will deflect it off to the sides of the vent liner.

If you have a flat faced breech plug now I would suggest drilling/counter sinking the BP so the the Lehigh sit flush in the BP. In this form you will have the convex faced BP that will help reduce blow back.

If you look at these Knight Breech Plugs - look at the second one on the left. It has a convex face ans was designed to deflect and reduce Blow Back in the KRB. Installing the Lehigh Vent liner in the same manner might work very well for you.

The other benefits are you opening the 'flash channel' to close to 5/32" increasing the volume it can hold and with the installation of the vent liner you are getting a .032 'flash hole' designed for optimum ignition of BH.

Here is a 2-bit drawing that shows what I think we are trying to accomplish...

 

[ronlaughlin]

I too have found that the Omega is 100% reliable with BH209. My Accura hasn't been. Thus i been thinkin'.

I ordered vent liners from Lehigh on the 7th, and had hopes they would have arrived here today, but they didn't. In anticipation of their arrival, i started the work on the breech plug of my Accura toward making it more like the Omega breech plug.

The plug on the left is a brand new Accura plug, the one in the middle is an Accura plug that has seen many shots, modified to accept a vent liner, and the plug on the right is an Omega plug. The modified Accura plug should closely resemble the Omega plug once the vent liner is installed.

Now, when the vent liners arrive here, i imagine the modified plug may require a little more work to be just right, then it will be off to the range.

 

[paia]

I too have found that the Omega is 100% reliable with BH209. My Accura hasn't been. Thus i been thinkin'.

I ordered vent liners from Lehigh on the 7th, and had hopes they would have arrived here today, but they didn't. In anticipation of their arrival, i started the work on the breech plug of my Accura toward making it more like the Omega breech plug.

The plug on the left is a brand new Accura plug, the one in the middle is an Accura plug that has seen many shots, modified to accept a vent liner, and the plug on the right is an Omega plug. The modified Accura plug should closely resemble the Omega plug once the vent liner is installed.

Now, when the vent liners arrive here, i imagine the modified plug may require a little more work to be just right, then it will be off to the range.

In your top pic, the middle plug started out like the left plug? :shock:

Why do you think BH209 has not worked that well in your Accura? Because the breech plug had a very long flash channel?

I do not know why the factory Omega plug works so well with BH209. Because the actions seals well and the flash channel is relatively short? With its deep concave face, the Omega BP does put the primer pretty close to the powder compared to some other rifles.

Looks like a great job on your plug work. Let us know how it works when you get to test it.

 

[sabotloader]

paia

The Accura plug was not designed to handle BH. The two largest problems are the restrictive 'Flash Channel' and the diameter of the 'Flash Hole' opening. CVA in a effort to reduce blow back reduced them.

This is a Triumph plug and it close to double the length of the Accura plug and it shoots BH very well... Larger 'flash Channel' and a larger 'Flash Hole' and with all of that zero blow back as the plug has enough internal volume to hold the blow back gas...

 

[SteveB]

Sabotloader,

Have you seen a Knight KRB bp and if so, what would you say keeps it from being a BH209 plug?

Thanks
Steve

 

[sabotloader]

SteveB

The size of the 'flash hole' is .027 and it should be @ .032 - but if you open the KRB plug up it will provide you with a bunch of blow back. Knight went with the convex face and small 'flash hole' to get the cleanest breech area they could.

 

[Chick]

Sabotloader. Thanks for the tecnical information. I understand the theory of what we are looking for now. One other thing. When I talked to the guy over ballistics testing at Western, he told me that they had found that the BP that had the 1/8" hole, directly in front of the 209 primer, and extending the length of the BP, with a short flashg hole length, with a .032 to .035 flash hole, had given them the best performance. He said his co-worker had got a new Vortek, loved it, and had no problems with it.

 

[SteveB]

sabotloader - that makes sense.
I haven't measured it, but the flame channel seems to be considerably larger then most.

Thanks
Steve

 

[ronlaughlin]

..................................In your top pic, the middle plug started out like the left plug?..................................

Yes it did.

I wouldn't say BH209 hasn't worked out well in the Accura. It has killed several deer so far this season. The thing is, when one compare the results of using BH209 in the Accura with the results in the Omega, one realizes the Omega does it perfectly, whereas, the Accura has had a misfire, and a few hangfire.

It was my opinion, the reason for the success with the Omega was because the breech plug has a deep concavity, whereas, the Accura doesn't. However, maybe it is more due to the shorter fire channel in the Omega. Maybe there is another reason none of us can see. I haven't tried my Triumph yet, but most say it works well with BH209, and it has a very long fire channel.

What i could have done was tried some magnum primer in the Accura, and seen if that brought 100% reliability. I may do that, or i may not. The W209 primer is 100% reliable in the Omega; why can't it be so in the Accura?

I wish the vent liners i have on order would get here yesterday!

 

[Lee 9]

Well this is only opinion formed because of what has work well and what did not since I tried making a vent liner and putting it in two years a go.
I believe that there is a shape and volume needed for 209 primer to burn as hot and as clean as possible, and I think we are getting close to knowing what it is. If you think think about it the difference in sizes in pistol and rifle and shot gun primers kind of shows what works but they don't have to deal with the space problem being very close to there closed in space with the powder in it.
I also believe that the shape of the end of the vent liner helps control the blow back enough that it changes the amount of space needed.
I realize that there will be a lot of discussion probably disagreement on this which is fine as I believe we all learn things this way. Some of you may remember the comments made when I first stated I was going to try making one instead of buying new breach plugs way back when the omega first came out.
So have at it. Lee

 

[sabotloader]

SteveB

Larger flame channel - good! you have one of the newer plugs that they opened - they did the same thing to the new Vison plug and also opened the 'flash hole'..

 

[SteveB]

Sold it to a friend before trying BH, but still have an extra bp here.
The problem I remember might be a very loose primer fit.
Might open the flash hole a bit and have him give it a try.

Thanks
Steve