Spent 209 Primers hard to remove from breech plug in Accura

[6BRX]

First I wanted to say how much I have gotten out of this forum. I have been lurking here for a few months and have met some really great guys trading in the classifieds here.
Now my question : I received a new Accura for Christmas . I had been trying to put together a ML to shoot BH209 so was really glad to get the Accura. The first time I shot the Accura it was with W209 primers and I worked up to 115 grs volume BH209 the spent primers would just fall out or I could just pick them out of the breech plug easily . Yet after cleaning the barrel and breech plug thoroughly the next shooting session I have to pry the primers out using the tool provided by CVA and it is getting bent doing so. Is this normal ? The flash hole in the breech plug seems clear and accuracy is good but the primers are a pain getting out. Also, my firing pin bushing is getting buggered up by the primers . Any suggestions ?

Thanks,
Rodney

 

[frontier gander]

sounds like the pressure is blowing back the primer into the bushing area and then that pressure is expanding the primer to the point where it bulges into the breech plug pocket. Try backing your plug out Less than 1/4 of a turn.

 

[sabotloader]

6BRX

I suggest you call CVA and ask them - I have never liked the idea of backing a breech plug out or off the barrel flange. The mating of face of the breech plug and the barrel flange is where you are suppose to stop blow back from running aroud the outside of your BP.

 

[6BRX]

Thanks for the help. Is it possible I'm turning the firing pin bushing in too far ? It has an o-ring which I would think allow me not to have to screw it in until it stops. I might could try backing it out some .Would that take up enough ?

Rodney

 

[frontier gander]

yep you can fine tune it that way too. Just a little at a time and take note of when the primer starts to make contact with the bushing.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Thanks for the help. Is it possible I'm turning the firing pin bushing in too far ? It has an o-ring which I would think allow me not to have to screw it in until it stops. I might could try backing it out some .Would that take up enough ?

Rodney

The W209 primers 'fall' out of my Accura after firing. Powder is BH209 105g, bullet is 300g 44 or 45 caliber, and sabot is harvester smooth short.

I have had my rifle about 8 month, and have never, touched the firing pin bushing.

 

[6BRX]

Even though I'm using BH209 I still take apart everything I can take apart to clean after a shooting session. It is just what I'm used to from shooting Pyrodex and 777. I probably should have left it alone but the manual said it should be cleaned and that is what I did. What it didn't say was that I might have to "fine tune" the bushing when replacing it in the breech. I'm curious as to what CVA will say about it...besides "You dummy!"

Rodney

 

[frontier gander]

what kind of leaves me scratching my head is that it performed fine one day and then the next day, the primers started swelling/sticking. Did you clean the breech plug with the drill bit trick? BH209 builds up a lot of carbon in the breech plug and has to be cleaned, i believe the safe # was after 10 shots, run the drill bit to clean it free of carbon build up.

See that black hole? Thats the flash channel that gets built up very quickly with bh209. Find a drill bit that fits it and cut the fouling out of there and then run some Hoppes in there and clean it out.

 

[Okie Hog]

I have never liked the idea of backing a breech plug out or off the barrel flange. The mating of face of the breech plug and the barrel flange is where you are suppose to stop blow back from running aroud the outside of your BP.

+1

You are right. This is the wrong way to go. Backing the breechplug off the flange will lead to gas cutting of the breechplug and the threads in the breech of the gun. The end result is much more blowby.

 

[6BRX]

what kind of leaves me scratching my head is that it performed fine one day and then the next day, the primers started swelling/sticking. Did you clean the breech plug with the drill bit trick? BH209 builds up a lot of carbon in the breech plug and has to be cleaned, i believe the safe # was after 10 shots, run the drill bit to clean it free of carbon build up.

See that black hole? Thats the flash channel that gets built up very quickly with bh209. Find a drill bit that fits it and cut the fouling out of there and then run some Hoppes in there and clean it out.

I got to thinking the same thing last night. I had been using a too small drill bit that would fit the smaller hole (next to the powder) instead of finding a drill bit that would fit the flame channel snugly up to the small hole . It looks like a 1/16th drill bit fits and I have cleaned the breech plug using that and can see much more day light through the flame channel. I will try it out after work this evening and see what it does.

Thanks,
Rodney

 

[ronlaughlin]

.......................................It looks like a 1/16th drill bit fits and I have cleaned the breech plug using that and can see much more day light through the flame channel. I will try it out after work this evening and see what it does.

Thanks,
Rodney

The flame channel will take a 7/64" drill.

 

[hawgslayer]

8)

If I was having this problem I would contact CVA and have them tell you whats what. I dealt with them in the pass and I can say they have a very good service dept. I also can say I shot the crap out of my 2 accuras and never had the same problem your having :!: :!:
Good luck :!: :!: :!:

 

[Busta]

what kind of leaves me scratching my head is that it performed fine one day and then the next day, the primers started swelling/sticking. Did you clean the breech plug with the drill bit trick? BH209 builds up a lot of carbon in the breech plug and has to be cleaned, i believe the safe # was after 10 shots, run the drill bit to clean it free of carbon build up.

See that black hole? Thats the flash channel that gets built up very quickly with bh209. Find a drill bit that fits it and cut the fouling out of there and then run some Hoppes in there and clean it out.

I got to thinking the same thing last night. I had been using a too small drill bit that would fit the smaller hole (next to the powder) instead of finding a drill bit that would fit the flame channel snugly up to the small hole . It looks like a 1/16th drill bit fits and I have cleaned the breech plug using that and can see much more day light through the flame channel. I will try it out after work this evening and see what it does.

Thanks,
Rodney

Rodney,

Like ronlaughlin stated use a 7/64" drill. The CVA flame channels are 3mm, which translates to .118". Your little 1/16" drill is not going to cut it, no wonder you are getting bulged primers, there is no where for the volume of flame to go. With only a 1/16" path through that carbon, you are probably reducing the capacity of that flame channel down to 25% or less of what it can hold. Just keep going up in size on your drills until you either get to 7/64", or 3mm if you have metric bits.

This is the reason I like 5/32" flame channels in my plugs. They allow much more volume and pressure to stack up over ther smaller 3mm and 1/8" diameter channels. They also collect WAY less carbon and allow several more shots before they start closing up where pressure starts causing the problems you are having.

That carbon is HARD, and I know you think you are drilling metal, but you are not unless you are larger than 7/64" or 3mm.

If you are having trouble turning the drill by hand, you can wrap tape around the shaft or glue it into a piece of wood/dowel.

This is what I use. These work well by themselves, or drop them in a driver for the tough stuff, or for the Knight Disc at the range without having to remove the plug. It is sometimes easier to start with a smaller diameter and work your way up to the correct size for your plug.

I hope you don't think I am singling you out, several people do not understand this carbon build up. When I first started using BH209 and 209 primers I did some research on what the smokeless guys were doing with this carbon in the savage plugs. The drill bit was the ANSWER!

In the top pic the drill sizes are from L to R: 1/16", 3/32", 1/8", 5/32".
If you only have run a 1/16" bit through see the size of hole you have in the carbon drill #1, you need to be between drill #2 and #3. The Knights and T/C's need drill #3. My custom breech plugs use drill #4, notice how much more volume can stack up in a hole the size of #4 vs #1.

 

[6BRX]

I cleaned all the carbon out of the breech plug that I didn't realize was there to that extent . I started with a 1/16th drill bit and worked my way up to a 7/64th drill bit then soaked the BP in Hoppe's #9 . Took the Accura out to our range and spent primers just fell out . I also had to adjust my scopes elevation. I guess I just didn't realize how fast the carbon builds up using BH209 not having used it before .
Thanks for the help guy's . This is one lesson I won't forget.

Rodney

 

[Busta]

Good deal Rodney! Glad to hear you got her working good for you again.

We ALL have had to figure this out at one point or another. Not only does it cause the problems you were having, it also causes the misfires and hangfires people experience as well.

This post will undoubtably save several others the same frustration, AND allow them to enjoy their shooting.

I have had guys swear up and down they have their flame channel clear, but only to find out they just had a small pin hole rinning the length of their breech plug.

I went back and edited in a little more information in my previos post, it may save several others from having to learn the HARD lesson when pulling the trigger on a big old buck.

I would go so far as to say, the majority of people having trouble with shooting Blackhorn 209, have never cleaned their flame channels. At least not correctly!

 

[GM54-120]

Maybe i just clean mine correctly every time im done shooting.

Ive used Win209, Rem STS and CCI209M primers. All have almost fallen out everytime. The recommended CCI209M (an email from ramshot) did leave more carbon in the primer pocket.

Sofar i like the standard Win209 the best. I dont know if its because mine is a 45 and i limit the charges to 100grains or less but sofar it has been flawless igniting BH209. They seem to leave a bit less residue than the magnum primers.

Normally i do soak the breachplug while i clean the rest of the gun. Usually with just Hoppes #9 and it comes out looking like new with little effort. Windex would probably work just fine also.

 

[Skopia]

I cleaned all the carbon out of the breech plug that I didn't realize was there to that extent . I started with a 1/16th drill bit and worked my way up to a 7/64th drill bit then soaked the BP in Hoppe's #9 . Took the Accura out to our range and spent primers just fell out . I also had to adjust my scopes elevation. I guess I just didn't realize how fast the carbon builds up using BH209 not having used it before .
Thanks for the help guy's . This is one lesson I won't forget.

Rodney

I think this is the single most overlooked factor for most of us using B209. We really don't realize just how much carbon builds up in the flame channel. I had bought a new Breech Plug for my Omega last year. Just to have a spare. When I took it out of the package to look at it, I was very surprised to see just how much larger the flame channel was than my original. Thats when I started digging and cleaning and returned my original BP back to it's original specs. Believe me, ALL PROBLEMS WERE SOLVED after that. I did not realize just how much the diameter of the original BP had closed because I had nothing else to compare it to. Hope this helps.