Calling all Omega experts........

[JimG]

I have had nothing but trouble from my Z5 Omega. I just got it back for the umpteenth time from T/C. I have had a wide variety of troubles. Lack of accuracy with ANY powder/projectile combo to parts breakage. I think the parts were made on a friday and the rifle was assembled on a monday! :lol: I made a trip to the range yesterday. Two conclusions I've come to are-

1. It will never be accurate at all with Pyro pellets. Loose powder ONLY. Don't know why but group sizes are 3-4" at 25 yards with any primer and any projectile when you use pellets.

2. Blow back is still terrible. Fills the action/trigger group with gunk. I'm tired of complaining to T/C about it. Life goes on.


Is there any conical or other full bore projectile that Omega's will shoot well other than the Powerbelts? My Rifle seems to like the heavier Powerbelts. I've got the 245 HP's, 295 Aerotips, and the 348 HP's. Groups definately tighten up with the 348 grain Powerbelt hollow points. I know the Omega has a rep for NOT shooting conicals well. Second question is about the action/trigger group. I noticed that it's a bit loose where it attatches to the barrel. I see that it has a small dovetail but there also appears to be Torx head screws holding in place as well. I see I'll have to punch out some of the t. group pins to gain access to the rear screw. What size are these screws? None of my Torx head bits are long enough to reach the screw head. They are bit's that go with my gunsmiths bit set. I'll have to buy a set of t-handles or something similar.

 

[txhunter58]

If you haven't tried the Hornady 350 gr FPB's give them a try. Also, start with 80 gr of powder and work up from there. Seems to do better with lower powder charges. My elk load is 90 gr BH 209 and the 350 FPB in my Omega. My Omega shoots the FPB's at 3" at 100 yards with open sights (which is great for me) It shoots them pretty well with either pyrodex, 777 with a 777 primer, or BH 209 with a remington STS primer. I just like the BH best because I have shot up to 30 times without swabbing.

One other trick you could try if you want to find another conical is to cut off the petals of a plastic sabot and use just the base. Then load powder, sabot base and the conical. Seems to act like the base of the powerbelt to seal gases and help the Omega shoot better with flat base conicals

 

[younghunter_86]

Sounds like there is a lot going on. Even though you mention that you are tired of talking to TC. if this was my gun, I would call TC and let them know you are sending the gun in for repair. I have found their customer service to be quite.

 

[JimG]

I've spent a fortune shipping the rifle back to T/C. It averages a bout $20 each time. The rifle has been back 6 times. Yes 6 times!! Averages 1 month each time. I've owned the rifle 9 months. It's a lemon. My Knight Extreme fires any and all powders or pellets (never tried Blackhorn) in any combination with any projectile well. Of course some better than other but all are acceptable for hunting. I've even shot a documented 3 shot 1.5" group at 200 yards with witnesses at my hunting club with the Knight. All I ask of any muzzleloader is a 2"-3" group of 3 shots at 100 yards with it's favorite powder/projectile combination. That's it. Some want sub MOA. I'm reasonable. I hunt. I don't go to Friendship IND to compete. A reliable and consistent 2"-3" group at 100 yards is fine for big game hunting at the typical ranges deer are killed here in the eastern midwest. This Omega was NOT capable of that until now. See why I'm tired of talking to T/C. The only real problem I've got right now is the loose action/trigger group. If I was not sooooooooo stubborn I'd of thrown this rifle into a deep lake a long time ago.

 

[JimG]

I should add that I just did a search for loose Omega actions. I found some info but it was not quite what I was needing. I did see a few pics of Omegas that had the block that the t. group is pinned to WELDED to the barrel. Mine is DOVETAILED and SCREWED. Was not aware there were two versions of the Omega Z5.

 

[rt_con]

JimG : First, I own an Omega, but I'm not an Omega expert... but I think there are some guys here who are. Couple of questions:

1. You said you've had it for 9 months...are you the original owner ?

2. With respect to blowback/fouling, how many shots are been fired in it... using the original breech plug ? (My b/p lasted approx. 350 shots until the fouling greatly increased and had to be replaced).

3. What brand of primer are you using. (Fed209a and CCI209M where the dirtiest for me.... Rem STS the cleanest).

4. You said you searched and found a post on loose Omega actions... this one ? Does your trigger group look like the pics here ?

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... oose+omega

Not saying you really don't have a "lemon", but mine shoots almost as good as my Knight Elite (probably better using BH209). However I'm shooting saboted bullets.... not conicals. And I've heard of some T/C owners reporting problems shooting conicals due to an off-center QLA on their T/C guns.

Report back to us.

 

[sabotloader]

JimG

Sent you a PM - I am not an expert on anything buut certainly willing to help...

 

[paia]

I should add that I just did a search for loose Omega actions. I found some info but it was not quite what I was needing. I did see a few pics of Omegas that had the block that the t. group is pinned to WELDED to the barrel. Mine is DOVETAILED and SCREWED. Was not aware there were two versions of the Omega Z5.

I am not sure about the Z5's, but there are two "versions" of the Omegas. The original ones (from 2002?) had the block that the trigger group pins to welded to the barrel. Newer Omegas do not--they have the block screwed to the barrel. I do not know when T/C changed the design, but in my experience the older, welded rifles shoot better.

If your block is loose I am sure that has something to do with all the blow back you are getting. Get whatever torx driver you need to tighten it and, if it was mine, I'd use red loc-tite and tighten the hell out of it. I'd even look into having it tig welded, but I am not familiar with the Z5's. If it's a carbon steel block and a stainless barrel/dovetail, welding might not work so hot. I mig weld at work all the time, but have no experience with welding stainless.

Unfortunately I can't help with advice about conicals in an Omega--I have always shot sabots.

Good luck--

 

[coop2564]

Man I have a z5 that I put a gray lam thumbhole stock on and it could not be a better gun. I get no blowback none! I can wipe a white patch in sealed primer area and dont even get a smug. I do have to use a primer tool to get the primer out which is no problem I'll take that any day over the blowback mess. My gun has to have very tight fitting sabot to shoot a group, with crush ribs 6" groups, same with PB's. But mine will shoot barnes yellow sabot 285gr spitfires with 100grs BH in 1.5" as many times as u want to shoot , same for the TC Shockwave 250gr I'm using w209 primers with the black horn.

 

[Spitpatch]

shoot it with iron sights to verify accuracy. Sounds like one of the problems may be a bad scope.

 

[Lee 9]

I agree with Spitpatch, a bad Scope bad or loose mounts,or the block that the pivot pin goes through came a little loose on mine, shot all over the place till I found what was wrong. A bit of blue lock tight and tighten up the screws and it was back to a minute of angle with its favorite load. Look for a bad scope muzzle loaders are hard on scopes, if its not that find what is loose. Because its been back and forth to TC I suspect the scope or mounts. I believe they mount them in a rifle vise to shoot a group and that does not involve the sights so maybe that's where the problem is. Lee

 

[JimG]

Ok, I'm going to try to answer all the questions at once.


There is no scope and never was a scope of any kind mounted to this rifle. I've never even gotten to that stage. The iron sights are tight to the barrel and the adjustment screws are snug. I'm not moving the sights at this point. Only shooting for groups at this point. Adjusting POI to POA will come later (it's not that far off right now anyway).

I have not found a sabot/bullet combo that will load in this barrel. It's that tight. Powerbelts, both the Copper series and the Platinum series will load with a moderate amount of effort. About the same effort the 250gr Shockwaves will load into my Knight's barrel. Firm, snug but not very hard or difficult. Powerbelts do shoot acceptably well in this rifle. It seems to like the heavier ones. The heaviest ones I have on hand are the 348gr Copper series hollow points. I'd like to try the 444gr flat nose model. I know Powerbelts are not popular but hey the rifle seems to like them.

I have Winchester W209 and Remington Kleenbore primers on hand. I prefer the Rems. You mileage may vary.

Yes I am the original owner. Yes I bought it 9 months ago. Yes it's been back to T/C 6 times. I've had it in my actual possession for about 1 month. Take it out of the box and go to the range. Rifle does not work, come home and call T/C. Get authorization to ship back. Write letter. Box it up and ship it back the same day or the next day. Literally.

Yes it is the original barrel and breechplug. I've tried NeverSeize (my personal favorite plug grease!!), CVA's nasty breechplug paste/grease, Moly paste, and even T/C's Superlube (even though it's not designed for that). All worked great as a grease to prevent seizing. All give me the same amount of blowback. I got a PM today and it was suggested I try teflon plumbers tape. I'll give it try!

 

[JimG]

Sabotloader, I got your message. Thanks for the pictorial on how to tape the plug! I'll send you a PM in a bit.

RT Con- I checked the link to the message. My 'block' that the trigger group and action is pinned to is NOT welded to the barrel like in the pic. Mine has a small dovetail and is screwed. The two screws are slightly loose. The action itself is not loose. I don't need to adjust the nut like was talked about in that thread. It's the block that is loose. Thanks for all the help here guys!

 

[rt_con]

JimG: Sounds like you have 2 basic problems.

1. Excessive blowback: I have to believe this related to the somewhat loose block the trigger group attaches to. Know someone else who has an Omega to compare the tightness of the lockup ? Mine takes quite a bit of effort to close the breech... and it's really sealed tight and I get absolutely no blowback.

2. Tight bore: I heard new T/C guns are bored tighter. My Omega was harder to load when new than it is today. I think it had a few minor rough spots that smoothed out after shooting some. I would look for some .451 diameter bullets (not .452) and the Harvester Crush Rib sabots . Swabbing between shots is a must, unless you use BH209. Give them a try if you haven't already.

 

[JimG]

Yes my bore is excessively tight. I always swab between shots. At the beginning of each range session I fire two primers, then swab with a damp patch and two dry patches. I then load the rifle. Fire. Pull primer. Swab with damp patch. Swab with two dry patches. Load rifle. Fire. Repeat religously

 

[rt_con]

Yes my bore is excessively tight. I always swab between shots. At the beginning of each range session I fire two primers, then swab with a damp patch and two dry patches. I then load the rifle. Fire. Pull primer. Swab with damp patch. Swab with two dry patches. Load rifle. Fire. Repeat religously

You said you tried the 250 SW (a .452 bullet). What other saboted bullets have you tried ? Again, I recommend you look for a .451 bullet (Speer, Nosler, etc.) and Harvester Crush Rib sabot.

Another option is to try Barnes flat based muzzleloader bullets (MZ Expanders). Most of the ones for 50 cal guns are .450 diameter bullets. I shoot them in my Knight with the supplied sabots. I substitute the supplied sabot and use the Harvester sabots in the Omega.. they load almost too easy. Another easy loading bullet is the Barnes T-EZ 's... way too loose in my Knight ... but can use the sabots that come with them in the Omega.

Did you check out the the sticky post about bullet/sabot diameters:

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9798

Good Luck... Rob